MacDonald, the Alienist, has an Hour with
spoke with his Counsel
a little more freely than hitherto.
ALL AS ENEMIES
Titus indicates that Dr. MacDonald
found Czolgosz sane
-The Assassin shaved.
was taken from the Jail to the District Attorneys office at 3.25
o'clock yesterday afternoon. For an hour he underwent an examination
as to his mental condition. His examiner was Dr. Carlos F. MacDonald
if New York, a well-known insanity expert, who for years was chairman
of the State Commission in Lunacy. Dr. MacDonald was brought here
from New York by the call of President Adelbert Moot, acting for
the Erie County Bar Association, which has pledged itself to assist
the men whom Judge Emery appointed, at the association's suggestion,
as counsel for the murderer. Mr. Lewis and Mr. Titus arranged
for the examination. After the examination was over, Dr. MacDonald
said he was not at liberty to say anything as to its result. But
the supposition is that he found the prisoner to be sane, for
when Mr. Titus was asked if Dr. MacDonald would be called as a
witness, he replied, rather pointedly, it seemed:
"We are not calling adverse witnesses."
The examination of the prisoner was very quietly
arranged for. Attorneys Lewis and Titus arrived at Dist.-Atty.
Penney's office shortly after 3 o'clock. Mr. Penney was absent.
The lawyers sat in Mr. Penney's private office with the door closed.
Asst.-Supt. Cusack of the Police Department, who had arrived before
the attorneys, was sent to get Czolgosz. He went directly to the
Jail. Czolgosz was in his cell in Murderers' Row on the third
floor of the Jail. He was lying on a cot, with his shoes and coat
and vest and collar off.
"Come on, Czolgosz, get up, and we'll go
for a little visit across the street," said Mr. Cusack.
"All right," said Czolgosz, readily,
and he leisurely assumed a sitting position on the edge and began
to pull on his shoes.
"Don't you want to put them on out here?"
asked the officer.
"No, this will do," said the prisoner.
Czolgosz's ready speech on commonplace matters
while in the Jail is in marked contrast to the stubborn silence,
the almost stupid demeanor he displayed both times he was arraigned
before Judge Emery.
He came over from the Jail through the tunnel,
handcuffed to Cusack and accompanied by Jailer George N. Mitchell
and Patrolman William Hoffman of the First Precinct, one of the
men who has been on guard at his cell.
The prisoner did not look so untidy as heretofore.
He has been shaved. Another noticeable thing was that he carried
his head in its natural position, instead of inclining it downward,
as he did each time he was taken to City Hall before. Perhaps
this was due to the fact that this hall was practically deserted.
Saturday afternoons are a half-holiday at City Hall. He did not
have to meet the menacing gaze of a crowd, nor hear a chorus of
hisses such as was directed at him as he passed through the building
last Tuesday. Nor did his eyes shift from side to side, as if
fearing danger to spring suddenly upon him.
He was led through the District Attorney's outer
office into the small inner office, where his counsel awaited
him. They wished to be alone with him, so Asst.-Supt. Cusack,
after undoing the hand-cuff, retired into the outer office, taking
a position near to the closed door to be ready for any such emergency
as an attempt by the prisoner to escape. Jailer Mitchell also
posted himself at this door, while Patrolman Hoffman guarded a
door that leads from the private office into the corridor.
For fifteen minutes the two lawyers who are
to defend Czolgosz remained closeted with him. Then Dr. MacDonald
arrived. He was shown into the Inner office. The District Attorney
came a few minutes later. He did not go inside until a request
came from the counsel. He remained within but a few minutes, then
he and Mr. Lewis and Mr. Titus came out, leaving the New York
expert to conduct his examination unhampered by the presence of
others. For just an hour the doctor remained in the office. During
that period Mr. Lewis once again entered the inner office and
remained about five minutes, then Mr. Titus went in and remained
about the same length of time. Then Detectives Geary and Solomon
were called in to take the prisoner back to the Jail. Solomon
was handcuffed to him and Geary held him by the wrist. Patrolman
James Mahoney, another of the police guardsmen of the cell, walked
ahead and Cusack and the jailer brought up the rear. They led
him down the back stairs to the basement and thence through the
tunnel under Delaware Avenue back to the Jail.
Attorney Lewis went away fifteen minutes before
the prisoner was removed. As he was going an Express reporter
"Did the prisoner talk?"
"A little more freely than hitherto, but
he is not a very voluble chap," said Mr. Lewis.
"Did he tell you anything that might serve
to help you in framing a defense for him?"
Mr. Lewis laughed, and said: "Well, hardly."
"Will you make any statement as to Dr.
"Judge Titus has charge of that matter,"
said Mr. Lewis.
The same questions were put to Mr. Titus.
"Yes, he talked quite freely to Mr. Penney
and the doctor," he said.
"Wouldn't he talk to you and Judge Lewis
"Yes, but he was not very communicative.
He seems to regard everyone about him as an enemy."
As to whether Czolgosz had said any. thing that
would help to form a basis for a defense Mr. Titus said: "I
wouldn't care to say as to that."
Then this question was put: "If the prisoner
should absolutely refuse to talk to his counsel and maintain that
silence right up to the time of the trial and throughout the trial,
is there any possible way to defend him, other than by cross-examining
the prosecution's witnesses and trying to break the force of their
Mr. Titus thought for a moment, then said: "Well,
he has relatives and friends."
Though the remark might be construed as an intimation
that possibly those relatives and friends could or would contribute
information that would be useful to the defense, Mr. Titus offered
no interpretation of it.
"Is Czolgosz's father in Buffalo now?"
"No. He is a poor man and cannot afford
"Did you learn anything about the prisoner's
relatievs [sic] or friends from him?"
"No, but we know all about them."
The foregoing interview was had with Mr. Titus while he stood
in the outer office awaiting the conclusion of Dr. MacDonald's
session with the prisoner. Shortly before 5 o'clock the expert
came out of the office and was joined by Mr. Titus. Dr. MacDonald
was plied with questions by newspapermen as whether in his opinion,
Czolgosz is sane or insane "I have nothing to say until the
proper time comes," he said.
"Are you to be a witness at the trial?"
"I am not here as a witness. I am here
to make an examination," he said.
"Will you make a report to Czolgosz's attorneys
Mr. Titus replied for him. "There will
be a further examination of the prisoner," he said.
"We have not decided."
"Will you call the doctor as a witness?"
"We are not calling adverse witnesses,"
was the reply.
Dist.-Atty. Penney, when asked if the counsel
for the defense had intimated to him that they would be ready
to proceed with the trial on Monday, he replied:
"They have given no intimation to the contrary. That's the
most I can say."
EXPERT IN THE CZOLGOSZ CASE CONSIDERED
TO BE BEST IN THE COUNTRY.
Carlos F. MacDonald is professor of mental diseases and medical
jurisprudence in the University-Bellevue Medical College of the
city of New York. He stands at the head of his profession in that
specialty and is universally regarded to be the leading alienist
in the United States. He has been, since 1896, in the active practice
of his profession in New York and is consulted in all leading
cases. He was for some years professor of mental diseases in the
Albany Medical College. He has, for over 30 years, been connected
as superintendent or otherwise with hospitals for the insane,
both public and private.
Upon the organization of the State Commission
in Lunacy, in 1889, he was made its president, and held the position
until 1896, when he resigned, to resume active practice. During
this period he saw and personally examined thousands of patients.
His official career began as superintendent of the Flatbush Asylumnow
known as the Long Island State Hospitalin the city of Brooklyn,
having resigned in 1875. Subsequently, he became superintendent
of the State Hospital for Insane Criminals, and so continued for
a period of thirteen years, during which time he examined and
detected many cases of feigned insanity, and where he had an exceptionally
large experience with the criminal insane.
Dr. MacDonald was for a short period superintendent
of the Binghamton State Hospital, from which he resigned to resume
the superintendency of the State Asylum for Insane Criminals.
He has had, perhaps, a larger experience in the diagnosis of insanity,
as an expert witness in mental cases and as a special commissioner
under appointment by the governors of the State and the courts,
to determine mental conditions, than any physician in this country.
He has made frequent contributions to medical literature on the
subject of insanity and allied subjects, especially on the subject
of feigned insanity, feigned epilepsy, etc.
Dr. MacDonald is well known to the profession
in this city, where he has appeared several times as an expert
witness in celebrated cases. There is probably no physician in
the State who enjoys a larger and wider acquaintance in his profession
than he, nor one who is more universally respected. He is described
as an expert in the highest sense of the worda man of high
sense of professional honor, and well known to the bench and bar
of the State by reason of his long and distinguished official
and professional career. A man who knows him says: "He is
the kind of man who values his reputation and he will not say
an insane man is sane, but neither will ho say a sane man is insane,
as many who have been caught shamming insanity can testify."